Another very important thing about phrasing is that it somewhat defines genre.
When a teacher tells a student what makes a genre they’ll end up talking about phrasing.
Bebop must have eight eighth notes and two chords per bar goddamit. And metal must have sixteen sixteenth notes and one chord per bar goddammit. All those notes alternate between strong-weak. The difference makes the little difference and the similarity makes them both rather boring.
But it is a matter of phrasing. Right!?
Excellent teachers seem to be about as rare as excellent musicians (in the big picture). And finding the two in the same person, even rarer. Finding a good guitar teacher can be a no-go, which is likely why so many guitar players are mostly self-taught, maybe missing out on lots of useful lessons, even some of the most excellent players who don’t know anything about music theory.
If you ask me, the big obstacle separating good and bad teachers is in how much effort and time a teacher has put into sifting through the muck of what is being taught vs. carrying the torch of parroting. And a person having the time and energy to excel at both playing/creating and teaching would be very tough to practically impossible.
I hear you.
Applies to teachers of all kinds of stuff.
A distinction I make is between teachers who hand out material (curriculum)
versus teachers who make their teaching about what the student is asking.
I think that is important in music instruction, too.
Maybe a good nexus lies where students get material that stimulates questions.
One thing that comes up in a lot of material I look at concerning “phrasing” (or … how to make stuff up that hangs together) is the idea of a “target note.” Myself, I can’t make that idea/technique work for me very well. Anyone here use that concept as an improv strategy?
Myself, I am usually playing around with things in my head having to do with ups and downs of melody, what kinds of intervals make sense, where my hand is on the fretboard, where is the nearest root, how to change rhythm without changing it too much, how to get a balanced mix between inside and outside playing, and whether what I am playing has connection to the song. But generally I do not think about a target note.
In my opinion, it’s more of a training wheels thing, thinking about targeting the root, the third, the fifth, and so forth. If someone hasn’t yet learned to explore on the fretboard, it could help with learning how a given interval sounds against a given change. I think that most people intuit this stuff after having copied, explored, and played enough, which improves with more experience. If you find yourself aimlessly noodling or having a hard time finding the notes that you’re looking for, I would say that it could be helpful. But it can also be used to get someone hearing outside of the box if a person tends to feel trapped in their safety zone.
When someone presents these sorts of ideas, I want to hear it demonstrated in order to better judge whether I might find it useful. If it sounds genuinely useful, I’ll look more at it. If not, I move on. It seems to me that lots of problem specific exercises get floated around as general exercises that everyone must do.
I agree with that. It’s one thing I found frustrating about classrooms. There is very limited time to cover mandatory material, and questions and discussion only really hold up that process. And the same goes with some independent teachers who have an itinerary to meet over helping a student get to where they want to go personally.
@msore, how do most people tend to learn to sing musically? From what I have seen, lots of singing, starting with copying recordings.
I figure knowing how sing a bunch of melodic songs can only help to expand instrumental faculties as well.
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A good way imo to avoid meandering or noodling too much is to use the ‘call and response’ technique.
This ‘forces’ a definite finishing point where the ‘question’ [e.g a phrase of half a dozen notes which is imagined as a question] is then answered with a second phrase which satisfactorily resolves it.
I find this method helpful to maintain alpha [purposeful, objective] and not drift into beta [banging out notes without much definition to structure]
Maybe players do this anyway but I still find it useful to be consciously aware of defined durations of ‘questions’ and ‘answers’.
A couple of vids that might be worth a look.
@msore, this style might not be your bag (it is where my playing centers around), but I think it’s a good lesson on how guitar players generally think (or don’t that much). There is no general breakdown of intervals and rhythms here, but some good lessons in there nonetheless. Maybe worth some discussion.
This next one hits on starting from rhythms. His style is not my bag at all (a hot shit shredder back in his day), but he is excellent at what he does and knows how to talk about what he does. But most interesting, and I think it is true, is what he says in the beginning. Phrasing is where everything comes together.
Another shredder, but a very melodic one explaining an approach of outlining chords while soloing. Definitely a worthwhile approach to ‘target notes’.
Excellent instruction, the E D A progression is in the key of A.
Key of E
I’ve been teaching a few people recently who have played drums in bands, but never had any lessons. I usually start by showing them this video:
First reaction is usually “wow, I never thought you could do that much impressive sounding stuff with hi-hat patterns”
Also a good lesson for young metal heads. If you want to get good at playing fast, get good at playing tight first.
E Mixolydian, 5th mode of A Maj [ if applying strict diatonic relative theory to the A,D, E chords]
Tight snare work, it’s reported that only Buddy Rich was faster with this kind of technical snare stuff
I went straight to an E major pentatonic without thinking about it.
dunno about singing.
I would love to get some good singing classes going in my studio.
In my town, the city sponsors a weekly Thurs eve concert in the park. Last week it was a passel of singers calling themselves “Love Broadway”. A group of about 4 women and 2 men. Good skills but sorta plastic. One of the women is a friend of mine and I know her life and how difficult and sad it has been. And she is regretfully (she told me) pushed into singing Disney songs (that’s the new broadway I guess). After hearing the performance, I told Lizz that she and I should work up some Billie Holiday songs.
strong point, both for singing and teaching
I love both these guys, for different reasons. Kirk Fletcher and Brett Papa.
Each point here could be a terrific lesson, or a chapter in a book.
Great things that I wish they’d a said more about:
playing rhythm, you have to add movement, keep it moving
jumping around on the whole chord, highs and lows, like Curtis Mayfield
walking half steps down into chords, the old Robben Ford thing
It’s hard to listen to the greats but then find your own sound
how do you add feel?
Great how you play a phrase, land on a note, and then ADD something for emphasis.
develop a phrase theme, then vary it
a lot of blues players just start playing mindlessly
work on space, take your time
I never moved, or maybe just a little bit
Albert King is about more vibrato, like you’re drunk
use the weight of the guitar and it makes its own force
it’s just like singing or talking with confidence or conviction
It’s all in the inflections - like you’re singing
play something on high strings,
then on low strings (it changes!!!)
It gives it … you know …
Repurposing the same licks … but hone in on the NUANCE.
Yeah. Phrasing - when it is taken seriously - is nuance.
What was not very helpful was all the name-dropping.
Paul Gilbert said something like, “phrasing is all the musical stuff put together into the music moment.”
Summed up well. But hard to teach and learn.